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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:36:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite
Personally, I agree that the speed of the dram is not really the problem... its the tank and dps it has at the same time....
I think a 10-20% reduction in its dps would be the best option... (i.e. reduce drones)
There's certainly different options available when balancing the Dramiel. I would be tempted to leave its speed as it is, but to really reduce the agility and cut the DPS and/or tank too. That would leave it as a really fast frigate, but one that would take a while to get up to speed, and would be vulnerable at gates etc. But CCP's ideas seem sensible enough.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.11 10:09:00 -
[2]
Yeah, the other Angel ships need looking at too. They're not as clearly overpowered as the Dramiel, but, let's face it, the pirate faction ships most seen in PVP are all Angel ships, with a side helping of Bhaalgorn. That's basically all the proof that you need.
The problem is the same problem as the Dramiel has - the combination of good speed, good agility and good, easily applied DPS. The combination of great speed and great agility is expecially powerful and a sensible starting point would be to just significantly reduce their agilities to "normal" levels. I'm not keen on the falloff bonuses though - again, the combination of great speed and good damage projection is very powerful.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.11 21:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: mkint Looks like the scimi needs more midslots and more powergrid.
Nonsense logic leads to nonsense conclusions. There's nothing the matter with the Scimitar. Also, your comparison fo Oneiros with Guardian is absurd - you should be comparing the Oneiros with the Scimitar.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.12 09:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: mkint
Okay, now that's all kinds of stupid. The choice is never ever ever "should I bring an oneiros or a scimi to this armor fleet" the choice is "should I bring an oneiros or a guardian." Right now the guardian has the better buffer and makes your fleet nearly immune to capacitor warfare, oneiros dies easier and has a wasted bonus.
Between basi and scimi, I don't know why anyone would fly a scimi as it appears to have the same problems the onei has but worse. I don't fly either shield logi though, so I couldn't say exactly how to bring it into balance.
However, by your ignorant trolling, I'm guessing you've never had to make the decision of what logi to have along in a fleet.
Generally, when questioning someone else's credibility, it's not a good idea to completely demolish your own in the same breath.
The problem with the Oneiros is that the fast armour gangs that it would be best employed in support of - analogous to the way that Scimitars are better than Basilisks for supporting fast shield gangs - don't exist, because "armour" and "speed" are difficult to reconcile. You won't solve that problem by changing the Oneiros.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.20 19:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lucas Quaan
Originally by: CCP Tallest <snip> as well as looking into whether or not the Oneiros needs a boost when compared to the other logistics ships.
The main problem is that it has the slot layout of a shield tanker trying to fit into an armour tanking setting. Swapping a mid slot to a low would go a long way, making it essentially a mirror image of the Scimitar.
I think the Oneiros would benefit from a smaller sig and greater mobility too - and maybe a larger sig and less mobility for the Guardian.
The reason to fly an Oneiros over a Guardian should be to do with mobility and damage evasion, in the same way that Scimitars can be favoured over Basilisks for their greater speed and smaller sig. While the Scimitar is faster and has a smaller sig than a Basilisk (90 m vs. 65 m), the Oneiros bizarrely has a larger sig and a greater base align time than the Guardian - 80 m vs. 70 m sig, and align times of 7.9 s and 7.2 s! That's just crazy.
At least the Oneiros has a speed advantage, but it's only 7 m/s base, relative to the Guardian - 268 m/s vs. 261 m/s. It should be closer to the speed advantage that the Scimitar has over the Basilisk - 316 m/s vs. 240 m/s. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:34:00 -
[6]
Nighthawk - yeah, it's got lol PG. But all the field CS need a rework.
Hybrids. This will be horrific to get right. Every time a "how do we fix blasters" thread comes up, everyone agrees that they need help, but no-one can agree on how to do it. Part of the problem is that recent power-creep has seen Pulse become an effective close-range weapon (tracking boost and slower ships) and ACs become effective med-range weapons (falloff, TE changes). But the logical continuation of that trend to blasters only makes them a shoddy ripoff of one of ACs or Pulse, and nobody likes that. My personal opinion is that you won't fix blasters without having to nerf ACs and, to a less extent, Pulse - and that kind of opinion tends to be unpopular, as people would prefer power creep than actual fixes.
Rails have a similar problem. Their niche is range - but 5-seconds probes and 150 km on-grid warping has greatly devalued range and tactical positioning - so you won't fix rails just by fiddling with their stats, you have to change game mechanics also. Even worse, the Rokh, which should have clearly the highest DPS at long range, is outdamaged all the way up to 240 km by the Apocalypse. That's just stupid, and the problem is again that no sensible rail boost will give the Rokh the advantage over the Apoc that it deserves - the real problem is the Apocalypse's optimal bonus and Tachyons.
On the medium rail scale, the Eagle just has lol PG, anaemic DPS and is horribly slow. Bizarrely, the Zealot, supposedly a shiny Amarr laser brick, is about as fast as the Muninn, and yet has (relatively) easy fitting and great DPS, and even a pretty small sig. Again, you can give the Eagle more PG but it would still be unattractive in the face of the Zealot's combination of great DPS, good mobility and small sig, or the Muninn's mobility and alpha.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.23 16:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Tallest About the Oneiros... What do you think about increasing the armor to about 3000, reducing the sig radius to 70 and adding a little space to the drone bay for spare drones?
More drones is a good Gallente theme, but it's not really a reason to fly the thing instead of a Guardian. A sig of 70 m still gives it no sig advantage over the Guardian, and it has pretty much the same base speed too. If the Oneiros is supposed to be used when you need more mobility than offered by the Guardian, but still want to rep armour, then it's got to have considerable advantages in sig and speed over the Guardian, comparable to the scale of those offered by the Scimitar over the Basilisk, which are two pretty well balanced ships. I'm still not sure what these fast-moving armour gangs that would want Oneirosesii are, but that's a different issue...
This means changing the Guardian as well as the Oneiros. People will whinge about that, but they always want power creep instead of intelligent balancing. Currently:
Basilisk: base speed 240 m/s, sig 90 m Scimitar: base speed 316 m/s, sig 65 m
Guardian: base speed 261 m/s, sig 70 m Oneiros: base speed 268 m/s, sig 80 m
If we want to replicate the relationship between Basilisk and Scimitar among the Guardian and Oneiros, then something like this springs to mind:
Guardian: base speed ~250 m/s, sig 80-85 m Oneiros: base speed ~295 m/s, sig 70 m
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: im'ba Ive just seen the nerfbat swining to many times since beta for me to like the "player base opinion"
And I've seen far too much damage caused by endless power-creep, espoused by people as short-sighted as you. Suggesting that we boost 50 frigates instead of nerfing one is lava-drinking insane.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: VonKolroth Remote ECCM bonuses Oneros would fit the role and be more useful for any armor fleet that incorporated it and put it in line with the Guardian. I wouldn't even mind that it was burning 1 less large rep then the guardian to do it.
While not a bad idea in itself, I think we should be careful with remote ECCM bonuses. ECM needs to retain its position as one of the counters to logistics - and a substantial remote ECCM bonus would be going directly against that.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xorth Adimus Dramiel's is speed and damage...
It is possible to keep the Dramiel's speed and damage and balance it properly, but you'd have to give up other attributes. Such as agility and EHP. If the Dramiel had a ~5 s base align time and was unable to fit a MSE, maybe?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.09.02 12:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ten Dollars This is typical of someone who is given power to do something. You are overdoing it. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
FPS games have this problem. They make a great game, then poeple complain because they cant kill someone with a class that isnt good at killing it.
The FPS game company ends up making all the soldier classes equal, completely taking all fun out of the game trying to make all classes equal. Some ships should always be better than others. Quit trying to overthink this and leave them alone.
You're confusing inter-class balance with intra-class balance.
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